Q: Okay, okay. So you grew up in a, in your description, you grew up in a very regular home.

A: Yeah, sort of a, what you’d call like a regular middle class American household. (CLL: What was it like?) Mom, dad, brother lived in a suburban neighborhood. Dad went off to work each day. Mom who would quit work by the time kids came along, stayed home with us. You know, public schools, walked to elementary school, took the bus when we went to high school. Lots of friends, our house was always the center of activity.

Q: (KK: You know) Oh, you were the clubhouse.

A: Yeah, you know, everybody in and out of our house. You know, played games, sports, ran around.

Q: Was it a, was it easy just having a brother? I mean, your family is pretty small, right?

A: It is pretty small, and my brother’s younger, so I was the oldest child. But you know, it was easy. You know, four is not a bad size. You fit in the car to go places.

Q: (laughs)

A: You know, four around the dinner table — three to argue, one to referee.

Q: (laughs)

A: It works fine.

Q: So no, no, uh, no trace of hardship, poverty, uh, nothing like that?

A: No. We were never rich but we were never poor. You know, we never worried about if we were going to have enough to eat. You know, my parents were also very realistic about money. So, sometimes we would say, “Oh, can I have this? Everybody in school has it.” And my father would say, “No, I’m sorry. You know we can’t afford that. That’s too expensive. We won’t do that.” No big splashy vacations but we always went places.

Q: Were your parents disciplinarians as far you can remember?

A: Yes, yes. We had a lot of rules.

Q: What were the top rules?

A: We always had curfews.

Q: Oh.

A: So you know, certain time you had to be in, which changed the older you got. My father – very strict where boys were concerned. You know, none of the guys showing up and beeping the horn and me running out to get in the car. The guy had to come to the house, knock on the door, come in, talk to my parents before I could go out with him.

Q: Oh. Would you call them conservative?

A: Probably. You know, my curfews were always earlier than a lot of my friends’.

Q: Did that, uh, cause some kind of rebellion in you as a teenager?

A: You know, it didn’t really, mostly because my parents were quite decent and because our house was open to everyone. So it wasn’t like I couldn’t have friends in, any hour the day or night, or do things. It was just, they were conscious of my safety and where I was and what I was doing.

Q: And you were brought up in a Catholic home.

A: I was. My parents are both Catholics.

Q: Was that a, was that a, normal or was that irregular in a community that is White, Protestant?

A: Yeah, you know, my schools were probably more Protestant than Catholic. I went to public schools, because remember, my mother was a public school teacher.

Q: Yes.

A: So she felt very strongly that we go to public schools, and-, but it wasn’t abnormal. The community we grew up in was a mixture of all sorts of faiths. Our next-door neighbors were Jewish. The other side were Protestant (sic), but some of the other neighbors on our street were Catholics. So it wasn’t unusual but it wasn’t the norm.

Q: Okay. You know, at the time that you were growing up, uh, this issue of tolerance, uh, you know, accepting people of other faiths, of other colors, was this big during your youth?

A: You know, there was, when I was quite young, you may recall, there were all the race riots in Washington, DC. So it was never a religious issue because again my public schools had lots of different things, and because of our neighbors, you know, we were often invited to Jewish celebrations or I would go to church with Baptist friends and my parents were incredibly good about that. You know, if you spend the night with a friend, go to church wherever they go.

Q: Ah.

A: If you had a sleepover-, and if they had a sleepover with us, they all got bundled off to Mass.

Q: (KK: You know?) Really? And everybody went?

A: Everybody went, because we always went out for breakfast afterwards, so that was the selling point.

Q: Do you consider yourself a regular-, you said you’re a regular American family. But was that regular? I mean in some parts, for example, in the south, southern part of America, you’d have more, even more conservative than that, right?

A: More conservative and maybe more religiously, uhm, fervent.

Q: Yes.

A: You know my parents are Catholics but it wasn’t what defined us as a family. You know, we were very open to other faiths and other people. So you’re right, I mean, I think it was normal for our community and neighborhood, but we lived in a very mixed community. So you’re right. If you were in the south, it would’ve been very different, all other parts of the country.

Q: What did you want to be? You know most kids (KK: Yeah) – what did you wanna be when you grow up?

A: Well I changed several times. When I was young-young, I wanted to be a teacher, ’cause my mother (CLL overlaps: Like your mom?) had been a teacher. Like mom. And of course, when you’re a child in elementary school, the important people in your life are teachers. (CLL: Right.) So you wanna be a teacher like whoever is your teacher that year (CLL: Yes). Then when I got older, I wanted to be senator. So, then, when I got slightly older as a – when I was going to college, I wanted to be a lawyer. But I actually didn’t wanna be a lawyer, I realized. LA Law was very popular (CLL: The television show, yeah), I wanted to be a judge. I don’t wanna be arguing the cases, I wanted to make the decisions.

Q: But I mean, you seem to have found your track early in life?

A: Well, you know, I’m just lucky, though. I just fell into it. You know, it’s amazing sometimes–

Q: No, I mean, you wanted to be a senator. Were you already interested in politics at that time?

A: Well, my dad worked for a US senator for many years and of course, Washington DC, well, like Manila: all the bad politics (CLL: Yes). And so we always grew up reading about the political figures, what people were doing. So I think it was always fascinating to me.

Q: But you did say, in one of the readings about you, that you were surrounded by books long before you went to school?

A: That’s so true because my mother was an English teacher. And so, and also being the oldest child, my parents were really determined that I was going to read. I was not going to spend all day in front of the TV. So I had a lot of rules about how much television I could watch a day. By the time my younger brother came along, they threw up their hands and you know (CLL: They just let the TV–) sit in front of the TV all day (CLL: And watch it), just be quiet. (CLL: Yeah) But for me, so I learned to read, I was probably about four years old.

Q: And you loved reading.

A: I still do.

Q: How, how important is that? Because nowadays, we say most people don’t read because you have television, you have all of these games. How important was that to you?

A: It still is. And I can’t tell you that I have time every day or even a week to sit down and really read, whether it’s magazine or a newspaper or a book. But whenever I have rest time, or when I need to escape or recharge, it’s a book.

Q: It’s a book.

A: And I’ll also tell you, that’s how I learned. When I was first a fairly young diplomat, the first time I’ve ever supervised people, I went to have lunch with Daddy and I said, “My staff’s not doing what I want them to do.” (CLL laughs) And he said, “Do you know how to manage?” I said, “Not really.” “You better go get a book. You better find out. You better read.” You know, when he knew I was coming to the Philippines: “Go get some books.” (CLL: Read about it) So it’s the starting for me, read about it (CLL: To read).

Q: Okay, then when you, you said that your dad, you know, worked for the Senate. What about his work influenced you or made you curious about, you know, being a senator perhaps in your later life or entering politics?

A: Well, because often on Saturdays – because my Dad worked Saturdays usually – and so I often went to work with him. I’m sure it was my mother’s— “Take her, get her out of the house!” So I think it was crazy.

Q: Were you a whirlwind when you were growing up?

A: (overlaps) Energetic, you know (CLL: Energetic), busy, active, like most kids are (CLL overlaps)–

Q: Like for example, you were in girl scouts. What were you in when you were a kid?

A: I was campfire girl, which is in–

Q: You were campfire girl–

A: Which is a version of the girl scouts– (CLL: Yes, yes) I was campfire girl, and I played sports, and I had lots of friends and we were noisy, you know, like kids are.

Q: Were you a campus queen, like were you the homecoming queen–

A: No, no–actually my best friend was always the beauty queen in my high school. So I was never beauty queen.

Q: Were you the–

A: I was voted friendliest (CLL: Yes), that sort of thing.

Q: Were you the class president or were you considered the the intellectual in the class?

A: No, I wasn’t actually. I was, I did run on student government a couple of times. I was part of student government. I was a cheerleader. I was active in, you know, different groups, or debating, you know, just different.

Q: So you joined your dad at the Senate. What did you see?

A: Well I think it was just interesting to me, I’m watching, you know, his boss, the senator was always sort of impressive, and you know, you think, “Wow, I’d like to be that,” you know? I’m not sure I ever knew exactly what they did (CLL laughs) except that they went off and gave speeches and sometimes we listen to them, or sometimes, daddy would be at home working on a speech.

Q: Ah, he was a speechwriter?

A: Well, speechwriter, legislative assistant. So sometimes, he’d be working on legislation, so, it’s always interesting.

Q: Okay. But you also worked as a senate page?

A: I did.

Q: Why did you do that?

A: You know, I was interested in that because it sounded interesting, but also, it was one of those coincidences. I came home after the first day of school, as you often do saying, “It was horrible. I had the worst teachers, all of these–”

Q: You were in high school or college?

A: High school.

Q: High school.

A: Yes. Seventeen. Came home, you know, all the nerds are in my class. The cool people are in another classes (sic). It’s awful, I can’t go back, I hate it. And my dad said, “Well, I have a proposal for you, ’cause the senate is starting session on Monday and we’re short of page. Would you like to go be a senate page for a few months?” I said, “Okay.” So he fixed it with my high school then I got to do that.

Q: Do they pay you as a page?

A: They do.

Q: They do.

A: They do. And at that time, that was a lot of money for me. I mean, in global scheme– it isn’t. I made about 500 dollars a month. (CLL: For–) Which is a lot.

Q: Yeah. For, just for gum money–

A: For spending money. Yeah.

Q: And tell me about, you know, because I’ve been to the senate and I’ve seen the pages. What do you do?

A: Run errands. So, if a senator – you set up the senate before they come in the morning. All the bills to be considered, put in their desk. Then when the Senators come, you sit in  a line, and the first one, any senator who needs a glass of water puts their hand up and the page runs to them, “Sir, what do you need?” “ I need a glass of water.” Or sometimes, “I forgot, back in my office, you know, I need this, go to my office and get it.” So you’re an errand runner.

Q: You were like taxis lined up.

A: Exactly. (CLL laughs) Well you know, for a kid at that age, you’re sitting on the senate floor. You’re watching big names, talking to each other, and you know, it was amazing. And we have a lot of fun, kids watching it, citing who was nice to us, who wasn’t. In fact, my dad and I used to have arguments ’cause he would talk about great senators and I would say, “No, they’re not, because they’re not nice to us. He can’t be nice to a group of 17-year-olds. He’s not nice to the little people. They’re not nice.”

Q: Oh, my God. What was the most, what was most memorable when you were senate page?

A: The most memorable for me was a man who was very old at the time and very controversial actually, Senator Barry Goldwater (CLL: Yes). He was (CLL: Ran for the presidency) and by then had ran and lost, was being a senator, quite elderly, had had a hip-replacement, so on crutches, and our rule was you had to open the door for senators, too. So I was trying to balance a glass of water for someone else and opening the door for him and papers, and he said, “Excuse me, Miss, hi, I’m Barry Goldwater, I should hold that door for you.” You just think how gracious he must have been, 80-something. You know, I’m a little kid. And he was frail. “Let me hold that door for you.” You think, you know, that’s classy. (CLL: Yes, yes) That there are decent people out there, regardless. It also reminded me, because he was controversial in headlines that there are probably decent people behind the headlines?

Q: What else did you discover, like for example, who are the other senators–?

A: Senator Robert Kennedy, another one incredibly gracious. You know, he would come up to us all, “Hi, I don’t think we’ve met.” “No, we haven’t (CLL laughs); you’re important, we aren’t.” Well, you know, nice people like that would have sort of say, and I also remember some who will remain nameless who were not very nice to us (CLL: In what way?) who would snap their fingers at us when they wanted something. (CLL: Yeah.) Which no one likes to be treated that way.

Q: But as a bunch, were you, for example, you were treated especially because you were young kids and you were, did they view you as future ambassadors or–?

A: Oh, no. No, I don’t think. None of us were old enough to be viewed as future anythings. But many people were very nice to us. A lot of the offices, when we went to pick up something for senators, particularly, I was one of the first females. So there, the senator’s offices would always, “Oh we got a girl page here! Come out and say hi to her.” So that was nice.

Q: Why, was it rare to have girls come in to–

A: I think they had just started doing that for some reason, it had been all boys. And so, myself and two other women were the first ones.

Q: Wow.

A: So they were always excited about us.

Q: How long did you do that?

A: I did it for about three months.

Q: Oh, just three months!

A: Yeah. well, that’s because that’s all my high school would release me for.

Q: I see. When you say “release you,” you did this during class hours?

A: Yes. So we were working in turn during the day. And so some people, they have school for pages, but you had to be enrolled for a whole year. So–

Q: Okay. What’s the difference?

A: This school, they went to school, the rest of them went to school from four in the morning to nine in the morning, everyday.

Q: To be a page?

A: To be a page, ’cause then we worked from nine up to whenever rhe Senate ended at night (CLL: I see).

Q: My gosh, four in the morning.

A: Yeah, But I got this dispensation from my high school because I was only out three months. So I just got homework assignments from them and turned in papers.

Q: Okay, what did that do to you? How did that impress you in so far as your future career was concerned?

A: Well, I think it was the first exposure I had to what I call adult world because we always had jobs. My dad always thought we should, you know, work and earn our spending money. But it was the first time I had a job in the adult world. So it was different for me seeing how adults interact. And also it was fascinating and these were national names.

Q: Yes. Must’ve been–were you starstruck?

A: Totally.

Q: Totally starstruck.

A: Totally and completely starstruck. And a lot of times, I didn’t understand the issues, you know, they would be debating about something in the senate. But just to be sitting there, you’d look at all these senators and then at the visitors’ gallery, you know, it’s just–

Q: It was awesome.

A: It was a little like, “Look where I am.”

Q: What did that do to you in so far as your feeling, you know, nationalistic or your feeling for your country?”

A: Well, I think it gave me a better understanding and a more, an interest that a lot of kids my age might not have had and, you know, my congress, my legislature that, you know, was interesting to me. And I think it was good ’cause I think at that point, I probably knew I was going to work for the government someday.

Q: Oh, you did.

A: You know, it gave me a sort of a, sense of pride, in my government.

Q: You did say that you always knew you would (KK: I did!) work for the goverment.

A: Because I lived outside of Washington and– (CLL: You were so close) Washington is government town. So I think there are (inaudible). So it did. It was actually, the hard part for me was going back to school.

Q: After your stint as a page–

A: Because when I went back to school, I was a little bit of an outsider and no one really cared what I’ve been doing. And I had a lot of homework to catch up on. So I’ve actually worked—

Q: (overlaps) And nobody cared about your Goldwater story or your Kennedy story–

A: Not really, not–everybody’s busy on what’s the basketball team doing, yeah, you know (CLL overlaps), who’s the student council president.

Q: Were you a basketball player when you were in high school–

A: No, by high school, no. I was at a younger age and one Saturday I was playing with the guys on our local gym. I was fifteen, sixteen. And I got my front tooth out (CLL: Uh-oh) going up for a rebound (CLL: Oh no) and then as we sat at the dentist’s office that Saturday, my mother looked at my father, and said, “Gerry, she’s played her last basketball game.” (CLL laughs) The end. I wasn’t very good anyway.

Q: That was the end of your career.

A: Well, the dentist was pretty cute. He said, “Now, honey, if you got an elbow in your mouth, that meant the other player was that much higher up for the rebound than you, so I think you should be playing with people your own size.” (CLL laughs) End of basketball as a career.

Q: End of basketball as a career. Okay, you said you got into diplomacy by accident.

A: I was in graduate school on a scholarship and you know, we were all thinking about what we’ll do, we have to earn money to (inaudible) students and a bunch of my friends were gonna go take the test to be a diplomat. We’re living in New Orleans, and they said, “Would you come, it’s free, we’re gonna go out to lunch afterwards.” And then–

Q: You took it?

A: And I passed it.

Q: Were you surprised?

A: Stunned.

Q: Stunned. Why?

A: I never thought about it, I didn’t know any diplomats. My family had never been diplomats. I mean, it sounded exciting–

Q: But when you said you thought you would work for the government, what kind of job did you think you’d get?

A: Well, I think that I thought I will either work for a member of the US Congress, or Bank of Commerce (CLL overlaps: Background work) Yeah, exactly.

Q: Background work.

A: Yeah.

Q: But you were, you took political science.

A: I did.

Q: As a major.

A: But I was always interested again in sort of politics and legislature.

Q: Okay. When you passed the exam, you told your mom about that?

A: Yeah. Well, actually, I didn’t tell them when I passed. Because you pass a written exam and then you’re called in for oral interview. And many, many people take it. So, like fourteen thousand start out and two hundred are hired in the end. So it never occured to me I’d be the–

Q: One of the two hundred.

A: So I did not bother telling my parents and so–

Q: But you said your friends didn’t make it, those who asked you to come–

A: No, no. No one made it.

Q: Oh no.

A: Which I felt really badly because they were the ones interested.

Q: Yes, yes. Was it difficult, the exam?

A: Yeah. I didn’t think I’d passed it. I was stunned when I passed it. I assumed I’d taken it right now, we’d go out, go to McDonalds, have a hamburger.

Q: So you didn’t tell your parents that you passed the exam?

A: Didn’t tell my parents ’til I got the job.

Q: Really? And how did that come about?

A: Ah, you know, you get a certain letter in the mail which says, you know, “Dear Ms. Kenney, we’re pleased to announce that we’d like to offer the job-,” like “please call us,” you know, “when you’d like to begin work.”

Q: Wow. (KK overlaps) Just like that.

A: In a month. Yeah.

Q: But this after the oral interview?

A: After the oral interview.

Q: Oh, how was the oral interview?

A: Well, you know, I didn’t think I’ve done very well ’cause the oral interviews and all the exam and first was a one-on-one, where they ask you hypothetical questions ’cause they wanna see how you handle things. And I thought I got it all wrong. They kept saying, “Well, you can’t ignore this issue,” that sort of (CLL laughs)–

Q: Obviously, you’re not very good at judging yourself.

A: Apparently not.

Q: And how you do.

A: And then we had a group exam in the afternoon where they, they do a mock negotiation and the people with me that time were so sharp, and I remember sitting there thinking, “My gosh.” And one of the people in the group kept being nice to me. “Kristie (inaudible), Kristie what are your views?” (INAUDIBLE) Thank you. (CLL laughs) And then–

Q: I have no view.

A: I have no idea whatever happened to these people but they were very nice to me so in the end, I passed. And when I called home and said, you know, “Great news, big job offer.” They were furious. My mother didn’t speak to me for months.

Q: Why?

A: Because she didn’t want me to going away.

Q: Oh, this was already a job overseas?

A: Well, diplomatic corps (CLL: Already) means ultimately you’ll be going–you get offered, you know, hired, and then you’ll learn later where you’re going overseas but, you know, it’s a job.

Q: Ah, it’s a sure overseas assignment.

A: Yeah.

Q: Oh. And they were mad (KK: Furious) both your parents were mad? (KK: Exactly.) Why?

A: “Why did you have to do this? We don’t want you going overseas, this is ridiculous…”

Q: What were their fears?

A: I think they just didn’t want me that far away.

Q: Uh huh, uh huh. Did you have a boyfriend at that time?

A: I did, and actually he broke up with me over it (CLL: Oooh! He was mad too!) ‘Cause he also said, you know, “If we were serious, you’re not going to take this job, because, you know, I’m not following you somewhere overseas,” and I said, “I think we’re not serious.” (CLL: Oh my gosh!) Actually, I wasn’t serious about him. He was cute and fun, (CLL: Uh huh, uh huh) but didn’t see him.

Q: So you were a heartbreaker?

A: No. I don’t–I’m certain I told you I wasn’t sort of the homecoming queen. I had plenty of boyfriends, but never of the (CLL: Serious type?) beauty queen type. (CLL laughs) Yeah.

Q: We don’t like that type. (KK: Exactly) Ok, so what happened next? You accepted it despite your parents’ objections (KK: Accepted it despite my parents’ objections) Uh oh.

A: No, they ultimately, it took them a long time. I mean they did start speaking to me again. ‘Cause sooner or later they wanted to talk to their only daughter, (CLL: Yeah, yeah, yeah) but my mother still doesn’t like it. (CLL: Until now?) Until now. (CLL: Why?) Long ways from home. You know, my mother is a small town girl (CLL: She misses you, yeah), why am I not home with her, doing things with her…

Q: Yes, yes. So your first assignment was (KK: Kingston, Jamaica.) Yeah, how was that?

A: Actually, I hated it. (CLL: You hated it? You were a consular officer) As a consular officer, and I’m not very good at consular work, because it’s a specialty, you have to be very patient, you have to know the laws very well, I’m not patient, and it turns out law isn’t really my specialty.

Q: Uh-huh, even if you wanted to be a lawyer?

A: Well, I dropped that once I realized how much work was involved (CLL laughs). I liked the sound of it till I realized how many years you study. (CLL: Yeah, I know and how many books.) Exactly.

Q: And how many sleepless nights and how many eyebags.

A: Exactly.

Q: Yup, I understand that.

A: Once I realized what was involved, I lost interest, so I didn’t like the work, and you know, I just, I didn’t, the embassy was an odd place, I didn’t know where I fit in.

Q: Mhmm, mhmm, but was Jamaica interesting? Did you like the idea?

A: Jamaica was very interesting, but a hard place to live (sic). At that time, it was extremely violent, huge violence, everybody had guns, so it was a very dangerous place to live, our houses were all alarmed, there’s certain parts of the city we weren’t allowed to go, so–

Q: Uh-huh, u- huh, so did that give you a taste of what your mom said, “Don’t go away from home?”

A: Funny thing is, I didn’t dare tell my parents I didn’t like it. (CLL: Ahh.) So you know, I was sort of thinking, “Oh no, I don’t like this, and I don’t dare tell them, ‘cause then they were right.”

Q: How long were you there?

A: I was there about a year and a half.

Q: But consular work is what, passports, right?

A: Passports, visas, and passports, yeah.

Q: Is that, is that grunge work?

A: Uhm, it isn’t, its really important work. (CLL: Yep.) You know, obviously, you know, we have services we provide around the world to millions of people. (CLL: And probably that’s the only face that people see.) Exactly, so you’re the face of America, so it’s a huge responsibility (CLL: Yes), but it’s just hard work. (CLL: Yeah.) You know, you’re, you’re, I have such appreciation for people who do customer service which is what it is, every day, all day.

Q: Yes, yes.

A: ‘Cause it’s hard.

Q:Yes, and you have to be some kind of psychological reader, right?

A: You’re doing your best, every day, with millions of people coming in, you know, with lost passports, and found passports and citizenship issues and travel visas and immigrant visas and the laws are complicated and — (CLL: Yeah, yeah) — each case is individual, very unique, so –

Q: So did you think of quitting?

A: I did, actually.

Q: Oh, you did! Mmm. Good, waterbreak

A: No, because–

Q: Why did you think of quitting?

A: Because I didn’t like the work (CLL: Yes), and so I was thinking, if this was, you know, (CLL: The kind of work) I’m not sure, you know, how I’m going to like this, I wasn’t hired to be a consular’s specialist, I was hired to do political work, but you know, just thinking—

Q: Oh this was like the entry level?

A: Yeah.

Q: This was the entry point– (KK: Your first job.) I see, okay.

A: I’m thinking, you know, I might not like this. I’m not, I wasn’t really particularly good at it.

Q: But could you at that point choose where you wanted to go?

A: You can offer your ideas, and then the state department offers their ideas (CLL laughs). Theirs often win, they’re the bosses. (CLL: Okay, all right.) So but then, actually sort of out of the blue, the Ambassador asked me to be his staff aide. (CLL: Ohhh.) And it was sort of a whole new world. (CLL: In Jamaica) In Jamaica. And it was interesting, and fascinating, and you know, so you suddenly start thinking, “Oh maybe there’s more to this.” (CLL: Mhmm, mhmm.) So I ended up deciding, you know, I might actually like this.

Q: And that, you finished that in how many, how long were you in Jamaica?

A: So I was there a total a year and a half. And then I went back to Washington, I was assigned to a job in Washington, for the next several years, which is where I met my then, the man who was to be my husband.

Q: Okay, tell us about your love story. I gotta, I gotta get this down.

A: Well, actually there’s the simple version and the complicated version, so I can get—

Q: No, no let’s have the complicated one.

A: Uhm, I went back to Washington, and there were lots of us, you know, young people working in the state department. So I met a guy, we fell in love, were engaged to be married, he was 10 years older than I am, also a diplomat, and uhm, I decided I actually couldn’t marry him at the last minute.

Q: You were already–

A: Ten days before the wedding, we called off the wedding

Q: Oh my gosh!

A: Yes.

Q: You called it off?

A: Well, I just wasn’t happy.

Q: Ah, why, why, why?

A: It wasn’t the right choice. He is a wonderful guy and has gone on to have a great career, be an ambassador, we are now friends. But–

Q: Also an ambassador.

A: Uh-huh, he was 10 years older and once we got engaged, was kind of clear that his vision of me was maybe different of me. That he was gonna, I don’t know, I felt like being put in a box.

Q: Uh-huh, and you didn’t like that. You were too young for that. How old were you then?

A: I was not that young, I was 29 (CLL: Oh, that’s young!) But I still—

Q: And you were already being assigned, this is, this is actually your first assignment.

A: Yeah, so I was already in Washington and by then, I was doing exciting work, doing advanced work for the Secretary of State.

Q: Oh, was that terrible? Was that terrible? To break an engagement?

A: Yes, actually it was awful.

Q: Was it traumatic for you?

A: I was actually happy once I did it. And what decided me to do it was that I went to the beach with a group of my good college friends and so we were all talking about me getting married, and so two of them pulled me aside and said, “You can’t do this. You’re not happy.” (CLL: Really?) “We know you too well.” (CLL: They saw through you) “You know, you can’t do it, and we’ll figure it out, but you know, you gotta call this off.”

Q: How did they see through that?

A: Well, I guess you know friends well enough and everybody’s starting to talk about how exciting and your wedding and I guess—

Q: They didn’t see you excited—

A: –the enthusiasm wasn’t there—

Q: They didn’t see the sparkle in your eye.

A: Yeah and so they just…

Q: So, after having broken up, what happened next?

A: Well, actually I’d shipped, he was then serving as number two at an embassy in Africa, so I had shipped all my furniture to Africa. So, I was at–

Q: You were going, you were going to be the (with KK:) wife of the number two person. Oh my gosh!

A: So, I was actually at my parents’ house getting ready for the wedding, so I had to go into the state department and convince them to give me my furniture back. And (CLL laughs) convince them that I needed a job, I was just kidding about leave without pay, and–

Q: You mean to say the furniture was on its, you know, on a ship, on a ship.

A: Actually, you know I was really lucky. (CLL: On a ship somewhere.) It was at the port of Baltimore getting ready to leave. (CLL: Wow.) And they actually could have said no. I went into this transportation office, and I had this huge older woman and I said I’ve been so stupid and I’ve shipped all this, and I need it back, and I can’t afford to pay to have it back and I don’t know what to do. And she said, “Honey, I’ve been married to the wrong man for 25 years, we’re getting it all back.” And she did. Can you believe it?

Q: Oh my gosh! That was nice! That was nice!

A: It was amazing, here I am trying not to cry in her office, you know, be brave, be professional. (CLL laughs.) She said, “We’re getting it all back, don’t worry.” (CLL: She said that? How wonderful, how wonderful. So that must’ve been a thorn taken out of your side.) Yes, it was. It’s like one of these things where you think, “Wow, okay. I can do this.” (CLL: Tremendous relief) Yes.

Q: And then, so how did you backtrack on all of your committments, tell me about it!

A: Well, you know, I, we mobilized the family and we, and a lots of friends, and people called people and surprising how easy things are to call off. Its probably a lot harder to arrange than to call off. Call off the church, call off the—

Q: No, no, no, no. When you called this being with your fiancee.

A: Oh yeah, well.

Q: How did you do that?

A: Well, it’s interesting, though I think we’ve talked about this in years later now that we’re friends. He must’ve known it wasn’t right either. ‘Cause I always thought, actually, a man who really thought, “Gee, she’s making a terrible mistake,” would have said “I’m getting on a plane tomorrow.” Didn’t do anything rash. And he said, “Okay.” What we actually said was, “Let’s think about it. Let’s call off the wedding.”

Q: And he agreed immediately.

A: Yeah, “let’s think about it.”

Q: There was no, there was no– (KK overlaps)

A: Well, he said, “You’re driving me crazy” because I was obviously in the “I don’t know.”

Q: (CLL laughs) Oh, this is so nice, this is the best part of the interview! And then?

A: So then, we said we’d agree that what we told everyone was that the wedding was postponed, which I think we believed at the time.

(CLL talks to the crew)

Q: So, he said, you said?

A: “We’ll postpone it, let’s just you know, call off the wedding.” (CLL: Yeah) “We’ll be engaged, but you know, let’s just sort of relax a little bit.” (CLL: Uh huh.) And I think, actually, probably, we both knew at that time that we weren’t going to get married in the future. (CLL: Nobody was just saying it) So we drifted for a little while. (CLL: Ah, I see.) And the really hard part, of course, is going back to work. (CLL: Yes.) And everyone’s saying, “What are you doing here, Kristie! We thought you were getting married!” “Yes, well, I’m not.” (CLL: Yes, well that was awful.) And my father, wonderful man, I adore my dad, but not so sensitive in the girl things, (CLL: Yeah, what did he say?) so I say to my parents, “You know, I just want to tell you that we’ve called off our wedding and we’re not getting married.” And my father said, “Will anybody ever marry you?” “Dad!!” (CLL laughs.) My mother’s so funny.

Q: Why did he say that?

A: Well, you know it’s like the father, “Are you ever going to get married?” “Daddy!” (CLL laughs) My mother’s so funny: “I think we need a glass of wine, Jerry.” (CLL laughs) Let’s go to the kitchen, get everyone a glass of wine, just relax. (CLL: Your mom understood.) My mom, she actually never liked the guy.

Q: Oh, so she was relieved (KK: Yeah.) And your dad?

A: “I’m just confused.” You know, poor dad. You know, “I thought we were having a wedding, now we’re not. No one tells me anything.”

Q: Yeah. And the wedding was like, how far away?

A: Ten days.

Q: Gosh, Kristie, how’d you do that?

A: I just did it. (CLL: You just said so.) We just called people. Actually, again, traditional family, we went to the library, and we got an etiquette book, “What do you do?” So you have to actually all sorts of weird etiquette things. You have to open the presents, write a thank you note: “Dear Cheche, thank you for the beautiful cup and saucer you’ve given us, unfortunately we’ve postponed our wedding, so I’m returning the gift.” (CLL: Oh my god) And then you have to wrap them all up and mail them all. (CLL: Oh my gosh and you did all of that.) We did it all.

Q: In the middle of trying to get a job, again.

A: Got the job back.

Q: What was your job now?

A: Well, actually, I did something that I didn’t want to do, but at the suggestion of the man I ultimately married, who was my best friend at the time. (CLL: Oh my gosh, this is really–) “Uhm, well look, there’s a training course going on. That’s a year-long course, you know, for young officers. Nobody really wants to do these training courses. “Why don’t you tell them you’d love to, love to be trained, they’ll buy that.” Which is exactly what they did. “Do you know, I’d love to be trained. Always wanted training.” They said, “Okay great! Take it.” (CLL laughs) Sent me off to the training course.

Q: Training for what?

A: Oh, you know, it was just sort of management, sort of, you know. (CLL: To be a, to be a, official.) It was called mid-level training. (CLL: Uh huh, I see, okay.) You know, it was somebody’s great idea.

Q: You were already at your mid-level, meaning to say…

A: No, I actually wasn’t then. I was still a junior officer, but it was to train you to be a mid-level officer.

Q: Okay, tell me about this best friend.

A: Well, so Bill was my best friend. Bill and another guy–

Q: Wait, so how did he become (sic) to be your best friend?

A: We all worked together. We all worked doing advanced work for the Secretary of State. We, the young people. We ran around the world doing advanced stuff. (CLL: Wow.) So we were all great pals. (CLL: Yeah.) Super pals. We did all sorts of stuff together. (CLL: You were all in the same level of–.) Same level and we were all, there were eight of us and only one was married. Everybody else was single. (CLL: Oh, fun) So we were all pals, and we all knew each others’ girlfriends or boyfriends, and so at the time, Bill, who I married, and our other best friend, CJ, were both engaged to girls, so we actually had a dinner one time, the three of us, none of fiancees were in town, about who was getting married first. (CLL: Yes.) And none of us married those people. (CLL: Oh my gosh!) Which was so funny. (CLL: Really?). We’re still, we’re all still, I mean of course, one I married and the other is still a dear friend.

Q: And you were all in the diplomatic corps.

A: Yes.

Q: All of you?

A: Yes.

Q: Oh my gosh, small world.

A: And we actually had adjoining offices, one, two, three. (CLL: Oh my gosh.) So we say we were running in and out of each other’s offices–

Q: How did Bill become your best friend? (talks to crew) Okay, so back to the love story. So Bill was your best friend.

A: Bill was my best friend, so when all of this wedding sort of, was not gonna happen–

Q: Yeah.

A: Bill and our other best friend, CJ, the two guys, were just wonderful. You know, sort of everywhere with me, sort of like my protecting agents

Q: (laughs) Your secret service.

Q: So, well because we would go to parties and everybody’d say, “Kristie, I thought you were getting married!” And they’d say, “Cheche, what makes you think that, she’s not getting married!” like you were the dumb ones, so they were great. They were my agents everywhere (CLL laughs). And then, you know, Bill started being the person who gave me rides if we were going to parties, or if we were going places.

Q: I bet he already liked you then.

A: Actually, ages later, we, the two of us over Christmas of that year, I was, you know, Bill said, “You’re just going to sit home and you know, listen to everybody in your family talk about how you didn’t get married, so why don’t we after Christmas, go skiing for a few days? So we went skiing, strictly platonic, had a great time, on the way back, I was saying, “I had so much fun, I haven’t had that much fun in forever!” And he said, “Has it ever occurred to you you’ve been with the wrong guy all this time?” (CLL: Ohh!) And I said, “You? Are you saying?” (CLL: Yeah) And he said, “Yes I am. I think you should think about it.” (CLL: Ohh! Ohh.) Cute story. So I later asked him, I said, “So you were actually going to lie, I said, did you, you know, sort of think — (CLL: plot this?) — when I was getting married?” He said, “I did. I actually knew that I was in love with you but you were marrying somebody else and I wasn’t going to step in.” (CLL: Aww.) In some ways it’s sweet. (CLL: That is so nice.) In some ways it’s stupid, shouldn’t you have stepped up?

Q: Mmm, he must have been a fatalist to some extent.

A:Yeah, and he just said, “Well, you were marrying somebody else, and it wasn’t my place.”

Q: Really? So he wormed himself into your heart.

A: Wormed his way in by being my best friend.

Q: Wonderful (KK: Yeah), and did you get married right away?

A: No, we uhm, you know, sort of once he said that, I felt, wasn’t that interesting? And he said, “I’m going to call you in a day or so, and I’m going to ask you out on a date.”

Q: Oh, and that was the beginning of the formal–

A: That was. And then about a year later we got married. Although I have to tell you I think that probably both of us knew, you know, not too long after that, that, (CLL: Yeah, there was something), I mean, Bill is, you have to know Bill, but he kept saying, you know, “Don’t you prefer a relationship where somebody likes you for you? And you’re just happy being yourself?”

Q: Why? What was it before?

A: Well, because my former fiancee who is wonderful, you know, smart, interesting, but did have views and because I was probably younger, you know, ways I should be, and again, you know, once you get married I don’t think you should work anymore. (CLL: Ahh.) Which was the way it had been with my mother, but the more you think, maybe that’s not me. (CLL: Yes, yes.) Maybe I love what I’m doing. (CLL: Yes, and you love the freedom of choice.) And Bill is amazing that way, you, just–

Q: You know, yolu achieved a lot of firsts. I mean, you married somebody in the diplomatic corps, who is now–

A: An ambassador!

Q: An ambassador himself, right? (KK: I know.) So this must take a toll on your love life, on your continuing romance?

A: Uhm, it does, and it won’t last for forever. When we got married, we had a rule. We’re never going to take assignments apart, unless or until we’re offered two good ambassadorships. You know, serious jobs that we both want. (CLL: Mhmm.) You know, no taking separations for just to be separate. And that’s worked great for us. (CLL: And that’s where you are now.) Yeah, two good ambassadorships.

Q: Was it difficult to make that choice, to you know, did you get the offers at the same time?

A: Uhm, we didn’t actually. Well, they were pretty close. Uhm, ’cause of course this is our second back-to-back ambassadorships. So it came, Bill was going to be our ambassador to Chile, (CLL: first) first. And uhm, I had decided that I was going to go with him. (CLL: To Chile.) To go be the ambassador’s wife, and you know, hang out and have fun. (CLL: That’s allowed? I mean, you were not going to be a diplomat.) Just gonna go be the wife of the ambassador. And so we were talking about doing that and then the Secretary of State, who was then Colin Powell, came to me and said, “Mmm, we think that might be a waste.” (CLL: Of talent.) “How about being the ambassador to Ecuador?” which is not too far from Chile. (CLL: Mmm, so that’s how you landed that.) So I said to Bill, I’m thinking about that, but I kind of had in my mind I was going to come, come support you. And he said, “Oh, yeah, and you’d last about a month, and then you’d be bored senseless (CLL laughs), so go do it!” So I did.

Q: Mmm. But before that, you know, I wanna go back to some points. You did a lot of firsts, as a woman, right? And you have made pronouncements that the gender issue is a non-issue to you.

A: It’s true. (CLL: Uh huh.) Because I guess, I hope that if I’ve gotten, if I’ve been the first woman to do something, it’s because I was qualified, not because I was the first. (CLL: Token.) Yes, of course. Not picked just because I’m a girl.

Q: Oh, okay. You were named executive secretary of the (KK overlaps) Department of State–

A: State Department.

Q: State Department. Okay, you were the first woman. (KK: I was.) Okay, and how did that make you feel?

A: I guess it’s a little bit of a responsibility, I mean, maybe that’s the level at which I start, I mean I’ve had some jobs before that, that I was the first woman to hold, but that was the first one where I started to think there is a little bit of a, role model responsibility.

Q: But this is before you got your ambassadorship? (KK: Yes.) This was way before that.

A: Not too much way before, but shortly before.

Q: Oh okay. Is this the traditional laddering that you go through before you become ambassador? Or was this unusual for you?

A: Ah, you can go through different routes. Actually most of the people who’ve been Executive Secretary of the State Department have been ambassadors first, but I wasn’t

Q: Ohh! And your boss was Colin Powell?

A: First Madeline Albright, and then Colin Powell.

Q: Okay, and what were they like?

A: Totally different personalities, uhm, both brilliant, hard working. You don’t take those kinds of jobs, I realized, unless you’re willing to work harder than anybody else. You have to. You know, you’re taking phone calls from your colleagues around the world all the time. You know, you’re worried about the safety of embassies, you’re dealing with members of the US Congress, you’re busy all the time.

Q: Oh, so you are the liaison between the embassies and Congress and the State Department?

A: Yeah, you know and then so–

Q: You are the little State Secretary.

A: Yes.

Q: You were the little one. You were the power behind.

A: Which is the–, the real job I did too was crisis management. (CLL: Wow) So, which I had done at a lower level, I had been the head of a crisis center. So I did know about that.

Q: Tell me about stress, and tell me about pressure.

A: Well, I think I mostly thrive on it. (CLL: You thrive on it.) But sometimes, you know, you always have the moment where you just–

Q: Can you name a specific incident, and you know, you have diplomatic, uh, uh offices all over the world and crisis is just popping like this.

A: Actually, probably the worst one when I was Executive Secretary, our embassies were blown up in Nairobi and Dar es Salaam. (CLL: Yes.) And that’s, that’s a huge deal, when you’re called at four in the morning and you’re told uhm, we just had huge explosions at our embassy. I mean, you didn’t have to tell me more, I knew, jump in your clothes and go to work.

Q: What did you do?

A: Jump in your clothes, go to work, figure out what happened, who do we need to tell, what do we know, get the facts, start telling people just what we know, pull together a task force, we’re going to need people.

Q: So that, I mean, that kept you on your toes. I mean this is a 24/7 job.

A: Yeah, and that in particular, I probably had about two hours of sleep for I don’t know, how many nights in a row.

Q: Wow, and you liked it?

A: Well, I, at the end of that period, I was tired, but its interesting because you’re doing important work and–

Q: Right. And then you have a hotline to the Secretary of State? What was that like?

A: Right, but you use it carefully. (CLL: Ah, okay.) You don’t just call up. But in something like that, you do call.

Q: Okay. (KK: You know, you–) Can you think of a specific incident where you had to call–?

A: Well, you got two embassies blown up. (CLL: Okay.) And actually the Secretary of State had just arrived in Rome to attend a friend’s wedding. Private vacation, first she had taken. (CLL: Albright, you mean.) Yeah. And, and she had just arrived, would have been jetlagged, tired, picked up the phone. “Good morning, Madame Secretary. (CLL: Yeah.) “I have something important to tell you, and you’re obviously going to need to come back home, and we got your press people working on the statement you might want to make.” (CLL: Uh-huh, and you have to do all that?) Well you just have to make sure all the other people are doing it.

(CLL talks to crew)

A: You know you can’t do it for forever because you burn out and run out of energy and steam. (CLL: Right, right, okay.) But it’s very interesting and thinking about what has to be done, and you know, we have a problem. And you don’t, as Executive Secretary, you don’t personally fix it, you make sure everybody else is. (CLL: You’re like the coordinator.) You know, make sure our press people are putting together, who do we need to brief in the media, who do we need to talk to, what does the Secretary of State need to do. (CLL: Mhmm.) You know, that you’re out looking at, what about our Africa people, what about the governments out there, you know. (CLL: Wow! That’s a headache.) It is. But its a great learning lesson.

Q: Really. And then you worked for the White House as well.

A: I did and that was earlier. (CLL: Earlier, before then.) As the Deputy Executive Secretary. (CLL: Yeah, okay.)

Q: So you worked for the White House before you became Executive Secretary.

A: Yes, it was under the Bill Clinton White House, I was a Deputy Executive Secretary then.

Q: Okay, tell me about that, how was that?

A: Uhm, totally different environment for me. Because, the State Department’s not really political. You know, we deal with foreign policy issues, whereas the White House, of course, it was the first time I brushed up at that level against political people. (CLL: Yeah.) Who, you know, where you had to be a little more careful about what you said because people would take it, take it differently.

Q: Tell me about people who go to the White House, find it so different from what they see outside. (KK: Yeah.) Can you tell me a little, a little bit about it?

A: Well, you’re right. Because it’s much smaller that you think. You know, its a small building. (CLL: Yes.) And it has small offices, and you know, the president’s office isn’t very far from anybody else’s office. (CLL: Uh-huh.) You just realize you know, most places, are bigger, Malacanang is far grander, you know, the White House is not really very grand.

Q: Uh-huh. You know, when we see pictuers of the Oval Office, when we see pictures of the Cabinet Room, it looks as though its a humongous place.

A: But you know, the Oval Office seats about 15 people. It’s small. You know, it’s a small– and that’s the thing you realize, and that’s why the key at the White House is who gets into the meetings. (CLL: Who gets into meetings.) And who gets into sessions, because they’re small. The White House Situation Room is small, so if you hear about a meeting in the White House Situation Room, only a certain number of people get in, and that was one of our jobs at the Executive Secretary’s office (CLL: Ohh) was who goes to the meeting, who can fit in.

Q: Okay, were there any anecdotes about who goes into the meeting?

A: Well what would happen of course is that different Cabinet members would come to various crisis meetings and they would bring lots of their staff and you’d have to say, “Hi, Mr. Secretary, I think it’s actually you plus one. So (CLL: That’s it), which one of these six will be joining you?” (CLL: Ohh, okay.) “Sorry.”

Q: Okay, well what’s the atmosphere at the White House? I mean, what was it under Bill Clinton? What was he like?

A: Very friendly actually. Because he’s a friendly guy. That’s a thing that so impressed me about him. And I’m sure he would never remember me today if he saw me, but you know, just a very people person. So,very friendly atmosphere, you’d sort of bump into the President while walking around, you know, running over to somebody else’s office. (CLL: And you’d bump into the President.) Friendly, cheerful, you’d bump into sort of Cabinet members walking around.

Q: But by that time you were already ignored to this, you were, I mean, you were no longer starstruck.

A: Well, I was, you try sort of hard not to be starstruck. (CLL laughs) You know, yes, starstruck but remembering you’re here to do a job and not be starstruck and not you know, whip out your camera.

Q: Do you get used to it after a while?

A: I don’t think I ever really got used to it. Its still pretty exciting. (CLL: And what about–) And in fact, I had one friend who gave me great advice who worked there before, he said, “Don’t get used to it. Because, you don’t remember where you are. You know, it’s exciting and it’s important and you should savor that moment. When you’re going into work, you’re walking into the White House to work.”

Q: What do you savor most from that stint in the White House?

A: You know probably the most exciting for me was probably getting into the helicopter with the President on the south lawn and flying somewhere. (CLL: Ohh.) Because you always see pictures of the President getting into that helicopter.

Q: Tell me about that feeling.

A: You know, it’s a little bit of the same, like, “Look where I am. And I hope I don’t mess up.” (CLL: Yeah, yeah.) Because we went along with the president when he travelled domestically. One person went with him from the national security council and that was often me, and so, you’re thinking I have to be smart like, if something happens in foreign policy. (CLL: Ohh.) I hope I get it right.

Q: And you have to have facts at your fingertips?

A: Well, they’ll be able to find them, is really.

Q: Be able to find them. What was it like travelling in Air Force One?

A: Again, fabulous, although I was always a little on edge because you think, you don’t really know it, any minute the president could ask you a question.

Q: Really? Did it happen to you?

A: Yes it did. And one time it happened to me and I wasn’t prepared and I was mortified!

Q: What happened? I mean, the President said, uhm — (KK: There was an–) “Ms Kenney, what is this?”

A: There was a change of governments going on in Japan, you know, a vote, of prime minister’s changing. And it was my stupidity because I had shown up, you know, the helicopter’s leaving at 6 am and of course, as always you’re running late in the morning. (CLL: Yeah.) And you think, “Well this trip is, well we were going to Minnesota or something, you know, he’s going to be busy thinking about the speech he’s going to be giving, so I’ll just grab all the papers and I’ll just read them on the way. And I’d been in my seat about 11 seconds when he said, “Kristie, what do we have on Japan? Uhm, well we’re still getting information, sir, (CLL laughs) give me a couple seconds to touch base with our embassy and why don’t you go get coffee, Mr President?” (CLL: And you quickly called the embassy). Called the embassy, called the White House Situation Room, you know, send me everything. And so a few minutes later you have a few notes and you say, “Okay, Mr. President, here’s the story, here’s what’s evolving.” (CLL: Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh; laughs.) “Here’s what we know.”

Q: Okay, is it true that Air Force One, the jet of the President, is the best equipped in the whole world. Is that true?

A: Well, I don’t know because I haven’t flown on other kinds of planes like that, but it is what, I mean, the president has a working office there. So you know, if you called up the office on Air Force One, it looks like the office anywhere. (CLL: Really.) And you’ve got a communications gear so you can pick up the phone, in this case he wanted to congratulate the incoming prime minister of Japan and the outgoing, you can say hi, you know. (CLL: Calling you from the plane.) Calling you from the plane, got the president here, he’d like to talk to the incoming–

Q: What about Mrs Clinton? I mean, she wasn’t very politically active at that time.

A: No, I went with her on one trip, she was the head of our delegation to the Winter Olympics. And at the last minute, the night before, they decided she should have someone from the foreign policy along and they all looked around and they said, “Well, Kristie likes sports!” (CLL laughs) And I said, yes! Well, Kristie loves sports! Yay! (CLL: Yeah winter! Winter!) Went home, I was like going through my closet and Bill’s closet, what are the warmest things I have? Get me a winter wardrobe for the Olympics. (CLL: Just overnight, just like that?) Just overnight. We left the next morning. (CLL: Oh gosh, how was it?) It was phenomenal. And she was terrific. You know, very at ease we had our whole delegation with us, of some athletes and business people, and she was warm and the nicest part, her daughter was along. (CLL: Chelsea.) Chelsea. And she was a wonderful mother. It was nice to watch the interaction.

Q: What did you see?

A: Well, I saw, you know, she was, we were going to a medals ceremony. Some American skier had won a medal. And it was cold, it was late, it was night. And she wanted her daughter to put on a very nice little winter coat. And Chelsea said, “Mom, I wanna wear the ski jacket!” (CLL laughs.) And she, well you know, the mom said, “Well, no honey, put on the nice coat. You know you want to look nice, you’ll be on TV.” “Mom! I want to wear what my friends wear!” And the mom said, “Okay fine. You know, all right sweetie, I understand. This isn’t your, your event, that’s fine. And I just thought it was nice. It was a very warm Mom-moment.” (CLL: So she wore her ski jacket?) She wore her ski jacket. (CLL: and looked like a kid) Looked like a kid, and you know, it was a nice Mom-moment thinking, you’re right, this isn’t about the public appearance here. You’re a child, you want to wear a ski jacket, wear the ski jacket. (CLL: Aaw, that’s cute.) It was cute, yeah it was nice.

Q: That’s cute. Does it, does it, uhm, warm your heart, or what kind of feeling does it generate in you when you see things like this, people that you only see in the news, when you see them up close?

A: I think it’s nice. I mean it does remind you that they’re all people. That many of us face the same issues, of dealing with family members, day to day stress, you know, worried about are we wearing the right clothes, are we eating the right food, are we spending enough time with our elderly parents, you know, they’re all the same issues so I think its nice to see that. (CLL: Yeah.) And its also nice when you see them handled in a good way, it’s a good role model.

Q: Okay, so after your stint as executive secretary, you were appointed to your first posting. (KK: That’s right.) And what was that like? In Ec–, in Ec–, uh–

A: It was Ecuador. (CLL: Ecuador, yeah. In Quito.) Quito, Ecuador, which is a beautiful, stunningly, knock-your-socks-off city. Its a UNESCO World heritage Site, its in a va–, narrow, narrow valley with towering Andes. These bright, green, high Andes. Spectacular weather. It really was picture perfect beautiful.

Q: Okay, were you looking forward to this first posting? (KK: Yeah, I was really excited.) And again, were you the first woman in Ecuador?

A: No, we’d had a woman ambassador there before, so, so I was not the first one.

Q: What was it like?

A: Um, it was a good learning experience for me too, since I’ve never been Ambassador, so to think about how would I want to run an embassy, what have I seen done that I liked, that I didn’t like, how will I do things differently, and I did it, of course, read lots of books, as always, (CLL: Yeah) and I talked to a lot of you know, senior ambassadors in our business. You know, just ask them, how did you do it. (CLL: Mhmm, mhmm.) It’s funny, my husband always said, “You know you learn by asking all these other people, I just go do it. I said, I know, but I need advice. (CLL laughs) And why not seek it from the masters?

Q: So your husband was assigned first, and then you. (KK: And then me.) So he was already at his posting before you took your post.

A: Yes. So there was about a three month difference. (CLL: I see, so you had to wait back in Washington.) Well actually no, I was actually in Chile with him. (CLL: Oh, you joined him there.) So that was good, I got to watch him in his first three months. So he was teasing me, “Oh, so you won’t make the mistakes I make.”

Q: (laughs) That was also his first posting.

A: U-huh. (CLL: Oh, okay.) So maybe a good learning lesson.

Q: So from Quit–, uh from Chile, you flew directly to Ecuador?

A: Actually I went back to Washington to get sworn in, and then went to Ecuador.

Q: Okay, and how was that swearing in, how did that feel?

A: Actually it was a wonderful feeling, it’s really nice, I mean here I am on the stage, it’s great.

Q: And the president then was?

A: The president then was George Bush.

Q: Already. George Bush. And he was the one who appointed you. (KK: Right.) How do you get appointed? They go through your papers and they say–

A: Ah, yeah it’s a long process because the State Department suggests names, then the White house does a vetting process, they go through your ethics, all your tax returns, uhm, you must declare any political contributions that you ever made, and your family members, lucky for me, I’ve never made any political contributions, so — (CLL: Oh, that, that, that is good) – well, it makes it easier. But you gotta list your family members, then they–

Q: And say what their political affiliations are?

A: What they’ve contributed to campaigns.

Q: Oh. Why is that critical?

A: To show that, so people know in advance. It’s about the transparency. You know where people’s financial contributions are, and so if you know, you know ethically where they’re coming from, and so there’s no secrets. (CLL: Yeah.) And then the ethics people go through all of your tax returns and you file a financial disclosure form, and then they make you get rid of any interests you have that could compromise you in the post that you’re gong to. (CLL: Ohh.) So, for example, Bill had inherited some stock from his grandmother in Exxon Mobil, and Ecuador’s an oil country (CLL: mhmm), an oil-producing country, and they made me sell that. (CLL: Wow.) Because it would be compromising — (CLL: Possible uh, conflict) — and because Exxon Mobil had operations in the country. So they make you sell, if you’re–

Q: Okay, so after the vetting process, you made it!

A: So they do the vetting process and the White House says, “Okay she’s fine,” and then they nominate you. And then your papers go to the US Congress, and they go through them all again, ask any questions they want to, and then you have to have a hearing.

Q: Yes, yes, and you appeared and you made a very beautiful statement.

A: Ah, well I appeared and at least I didn’t make any mistakes.

Q: (laughs) Were you nervous?

A: Yes. (CLL: You were nervous.) I was nervous.

Q: Why? You could be turned down.

A: Well, you could also, you’re in a dangerous position because you could look stupid, and the US Congress could decide, “She doesn’t”– but you also don’t want to step out and say too much because you haven’t even gone to the country. So you don’t want to start saying what kind of policies you’ll be doing (CLL: Yes, yes) before you get there.

Q: This thing, Kristie, about being a diplomat. (KK: Mhmm.) Doesn’t it put a zipper on your mouth? (KK chuckles: Not really.) No I mean, to a certain extent, it puts a, like, two locks here.

A: Uh, well there are some things you either can’t talk about, you know, internal Philippine politics — (CLL: You can’t talk about it) — upcoming elections, they’re not mine to comment on. You know, I don’t vote here, who, what candidates Filipinos choose are for Filipinos, so you’d have to be a little careful. (CLL: Uh huh.) But it doesn’t mean you can’t talk to friends. It just means you’re careful about what you say in public.

Q: Okay, all right, then coming to the Philippines, when that was uh, when you were given that posting, did you want it? Was this something that you requested?

A: I’d never thought about it, in my life. (CLL: Yeah yeah.) I was called by then Secretary Rice, who, I was in Ecuador and then she said, uhm we actually — (CLL: You were in–) — I was still in Ecuador as an ambassador. (CLL: Yes.) Then she called and said, “We actually would like you to go to the Philippines as ambassador next.” (CLL: Wow.) And I said, “Wow,” that’s exactly what I said. “Wow!” (CLL: Yeah, wow.) Me? The Philippines?

Q: (laughs) Had you ever heard of the Philippines?

A: Oh yes! Oh course, but the Philippines, to my mind, is always, we always give that, it’s a big embassy, and big names have had this. So — (CLL: Yes, big, macho names) — so I never really thought of suggesting myself.

Q: Yeah, okay. But ah, when they said Philippines, were you shocked?

A: Shocked and thrilled! (CLL: Shocked and thrilled.) And I did say to her, I have to talk to Bill, you know, call Bill and said, its a really long ways away. (CLL: Yeah.) Uhm, you know maybe I should say no. And Bill’s so funny, “This is the big league! Say yes!” (CLL: Ohh.) We’ve never sent a woman to a big Asian place and this is the Philippines! Say yes! We’ll figure it out! (CLL: Aww, what a supportive, husband he is.) Yeah, he’s a great guy that way.

Q: Uh, okay, what were your fears about coming here?

A: Well, long, long way from home. (CLL: Yeah.) And I wasn’t, you know, an expert on the Philippines, or on Asia, so you just realize you have a lot, a big learning curve. A lot to learn.

Q: What was it like when you got here?

A: It was great. You know, easier than I thought. You know, you’re always a little nervous, you’re flying in, and what’s it going to look like, you know, its a little confusing, you’re jetlagged, you know, you arrive, you –

Q: It’s a big embassy, bigger than Ecuador.

A: Yes, Ecuador was a total of about 500, our staff, and here it’s close to 2,000. (CLL whistles) So big difference just in scope.

Q: Back in Ecuador, there was a political crisis when you were there, right?

A: Oh my gosh, there’s a political crisis practically every day in Ecuador.

Q: Okay, and did you expect that? You, you knew?

A: Yes, because the Ecuadorans have an outrageous history that no president usually lasts more than a year, a year and a half. (CLL: Okay.) Now, they’re seeming to break that trend a little bit now, after I’ve left, but that’s–

Q: But during the time that you were there, were you also stressed because they were changing, they had elections, they had this move for this president to come down?

A: Yeah, and they ultimately, the president resigned while I was there, was pressured to resign. (CLL: Did you, was the embassy very active there?) You know, yes, on several fronts, you know, not playing a role again in what Ecuadorans do, but making sure our citizens were safe and making sure that people thought about institutions and their democracy. And actually, you know, trying to advise their president then on some of the moves that he was making that were not so consistent with the democracy. You know, helping him–

Q: Did he listen?

A: No. (CLL laughs.) And actually, the only fun part I have about that is after he resigned and left the presidential palace.

Q: He was pressured to resign.

A: Yes. Huge bombs outside the palace. He actually called me and he said, “I just wanted to, you know, say goodbye and say you were right.”

Q: Oh really.

A: Yeah. Thank you, Mr. President, best wishes to you (CLL laughs).

Q: Were you attacked for, you know, applying, giving advice and–

A: I think we were pretty quiet about how we gave advice. I’ve tried not to do that publicly. Again, if you want to convince someone to do the right way, it’s not always smart to be out (CLL: loud) screaming and it’s so much better to talk quietly (CLL: okay) to people.

Q: All right. Coming here to the Philippines, you know, from the Philippines’ side. Everybody was surprised at this breath of fresh air (KK: Oh no–), no, no, first of all, it was a woman, right? And as I said, we had lots of macho–

A: And very impressive–

Q: Yes, macho, very impressive and you know, they went through a very rough time, some of them. Did you feel like intimidated that you were coming in to oppose that had all this history behind it?

A: A little bit, I think it took me a little while to sort of find my feet. I think I was pretty quiet my first several months, which, by the way, isn’t always a bad strategy (CLL overlaps) to be a little quiet and listen–

Q: What were you looking out for?

A: Well, I was just giving a feel for the Philippines. You don’t, when you’re new, in fact when you’re new on the job, in this case, you’re new in a job and new in a country, so you don’t really know who are people that you can trust, who gives you good advice. You don’t even know in your Embassy, you know, who are the hard workers, who are the people who need a little more motivation, so there’s just a lot of information.

Q: So it was the lay of the land?

A: Well, it was always my strategy, it has always been to just spend the first 30 to 60 days, you know, no dramatic moves, no major changes, just (CLL: Watch) listen, you know.

Q: What was your impression of the Philippines then and has that changed over the years?

A: My first impressions I think were what I expected, you know, very tropical, green, lovely, friendly, because I’ve known Filipinos my whole life. Everyone in the world knows Filipinos. (CLL: They’re all over the place.) And certainly all Americans do. And so I think that was very much what I expected. What I think continues is Filipinos were still friendly and nice — even the ones who disagree with me or my country. They’re nice about it. They’re friendly, willing to talk. (CLL: Yeah.)

Q: You know that there’s this love-hate relationship with the Americans, were you aware of that before?

A: I was.

Q: You were.

A: But you know, I think, that’s not true. You don’t — no one loves anyone exclusively and totally, and I also think differences are healthy. And I’m sure you and your husband agree on everything in the world — (CLL: No!) Me and my husband don’t and — (CLL: No, we don’t) — and I feel (?) that way about countries. You know, our two countries are friends and we get along and in general, we like each other and our people like each other, but you know, there are times when individual interests or nations as a whole are slightly different. That’s to be expected.

Q: That’s true. What, you jumped right into the water in a matter of speaking? Right? Was this a conscious decision of yours to obviously–. People think you’re quite different from the, from your predecessors, because you’re doing things that they didn’t do. Was that a conscious decision on yourself?

A: No. I’m just sort of doing the job the way I do the job. And everybody does jobs differently. I’m, you know, I like to talk to people, I like to be out–

Q: More immersed?

A: You know, I can’t tell you that that’s true ’cause I wasn’t here before. But I do, for me, that’s a joy of the job. I also like it, I like talking to people and I learn a lot (CLL: by) listening to people, and you see different voices.

Q: You’re very game. For example, you go to basketball games.

A: Well, that’s just for fun. (CLL: That’s just for fun.) That has nothing to do with my job or–

Q: Yeah, I know–

A: That’s just for entertainment.

Q: I don’t think any ambassador went to any of the local basketball games. You’re really a basketball freak or–?

A: I’ve always always liked basketball, but I like sports.

Q: You like sports in general.

A: (overlaps) And so for me, that’s relaxing. You’re just like watching–

Q: Favorite team?

A: Uhm, PBA, my favorite team is Purefoods.

Q: Why?

A: Because there’s a very good reason. Because we did a sports outreach, and we took underprivileged children to see PBA, and Purefoods invited them to practice and we had a group of very underprivileged children and the Purefoods players treated them like they were the kids of the wealthiest. They were wonderful.

Q: You like that?

A: So I fell in love with them.

Q: Aww.

A: Hard not to love people who just were wonderful to these kids.

Q: Okay. All right. You also went to Wowowee!

A: I know. They invited me.

Q: And why did you go to Wowowee! Did you do the–?

A: Well, they invited us, so, we thought it would interesting, I thought it would be fun, it’s a big show. And I told them, “You know, I don’t think I should participate in your games, you have your contestants for that.” But I’d love to come on, it’s was near Christmas, I wished everybody a Merry Christmas, it was fabulous. It was exciting, noisy.

Q: You were also in UKG. You know, your voice track is used in DZMM.

A: Isn’t that embarrassing?

Q: Embarrassing, why?

A: Because I don’t have a great voice.

Q: No, but I mean, you know, ano, Dos por Dos!

A: Dos por Dos, yeah. Exactly. You know, I mean that’s nice–

Q: But what is it? What is it about your attitude that makes you just jump in to these things without any concern for whether or not this affects your image.  It does in a very positive way.

A: Well, I think I will try not to do something that would embarrass my country, of course. I mean, I wouldn’t do something unseemingly, I hope. But I think, in general, what’s the worse thing that can happen, I look like another regular dancer on Wowowee, I’m not as pretty as the Wowowee hostesses–

Q: You danced!

A: I already know that!

Q: You danced. You danced.

A: I did, and they already know I’m not as good as–

Q: Edu Manzano’s Papaya!

A: Exactly.

Q: Why did you do that?

A: Because he asked me to, during the commercial break, he said, “When we come back,” you know–we’re already there, what am I gonna say? And it did flash through my mind, you think, “Well, what’s the worse thing?” I looked clumsy. So–

Q: But that makes you more human.

A: And I’m not a dancer. You know, I don’t earn my living dancing. And Edu’s a very nice guy. So he’s not gonna, you know, try to humiliate me.

Q: And that makes you more human.

A: And it was fun. You know.

Q; So you do the read-along for Inquirer and you dive into an aquarium?

A: Is that–?

Q: Is that what?

A: Now that was scary.

Q: Oh scary. You’re not a diver, are you?

A: I am a diver, a certified diver. (CLL: Oh you are a diver.) A new diver though. (CLL: Okay.) So I’m still a baby diver. I got certified about a year ago.

Q: Here?

A: Here.

Q: Look at that.

A: Had to.

Q: Okay.

A: Yes, I’m still learning, I’m not a great diver yet. And actually, it turned out very much harder than I thought. Kim Atienza and I were gonna do that because we’re promoting the month of the oceans and of course, the aquariums are beautiful. But it turned– Kim was also a fairly new diver. So you have the two of us looking at each other saying “Okay, now–”

Q: (laughs) With your clothes?

A: Well, I was actually in a wet suit. (CLL: Oh you wore–) Kim was in his clothes. (CLL: Okay) So I was in a bathing suit and a wet suit. So I was in, you know–

Q: You were prepared.

A: Water clothes. Well, the hard part is what you don’t know is in the aquarium is a huge current, I think, ’cause that’s good for the fish. So, looks like it would be really easy instead it’s so hard–

Q: To keep–

A: Walking into this current. So at the end, Kim and I were both like lying upstairs saying, “Oh my god, we’re exhausted.”

Q: Yes, but that had a terrific effect.

A  And it was a lot of fun actually, but you know, being in an aquarium with this beautiful fish around you (CLL laughs, overlaps: Swimming in an aquarium) all these children there that we’ve been talking to about the environment, and so they were all went, it was very fun.

Q: What was the best part of your job?

A: People, and the fact that you can have an impact on people that you can do things that move things in a great direction. That’s the people.

Q: The worst part?

A: Never enough time. You know, there was always more things to do in a day than there’s time for, I’m always letting somebody down because I can’t come to their event.

Q: You are also on Facebook.

A: I know.

Q: Goodness gracious.

A: So are you!

Q: Yeah, I know. But let’s not talk about me, let’s talk about you

A: (laughs)

Q: Why are you on Facebook?

A: Well, I started on Facebook because I’ve got friends all over the world. And so a couple of my friends who are living in London were posting pictures of the vacation we’ve been on together. And so they were saying, “Get a Facebook ’cause that’s the easy way to see our pictures.” So I started doing that then when my college friends climbed in, my brother jumped in, and it just snowballed.

Q: And now, you just don’t have immediate family, you have immediate world (KK: Lots of people) and immediate–

A: Yes. Lots of friends.

Q: Thousands and thousands of them.

A: And you know, it’s been fabulous. I told you, I’m a people person so I love people. And it’s a great way to get views and interactions. You know, one of the things I posted during Manny Pacquiao’s last fight. I posted, “Where’s a good place to watch the fight?” And you get all sorts of great answers.

Q: (laughs) Where to go?

A: Where to go. Here’s a good place, try here, try there.

Q: Are you surprised that people consider you their personal friend?

A: Yes and no. You know, I make friends easily so it doesn’t bother me. I had somebody yesterday email me that says (sic), “That’s really you?”

Q: Yes?

A: I said, “Yes it is.” (CLL: They can’t believe it’s you) Who else would have pictures of my family and my cats. Hello? Does this look official?

Q: Speaking of your cats, are these cats, have they’ve been traipsing around the world with you?

A: Two of them have, they were rescued from a shelter in Virginia and they’ve been around the world with me. The two of them are Filipino adoptions so– (CLL: From here.) From here.

Q: So you now have four cats?

A: I have four.

Q: And growing?

A: Oh, I hope not. Four’s a lot

Q: Oh why cats? Why cats?

A: I actually love all animals. I’m a huge, you know, animal fan. But when I joined the diplomatic corps, cats are easier to carry around with you in the world and you live, you don’t know where you can live as a diplomat. You might be in a very small apartment and so a cat can live in almost anywhere whereas a dog, you might need more space.

Q: So for your next post, you’re gonna have four, instead of–

A: I have no idea how we’re gonna move this all here exactly. That’s why I can’t leave.

Q: Yeah, you can’t leave.

A: I stay, the pets and I can stay–

Q: How was it to the MILF camp?

A: Actually, you know, very interesting, of course. The interesting thing for me is that what was the overriding feature is that they were Filipinos first. That was, it was a very Philippine gathering for me, that they were friendly, cheerful, you know, greeted me with you know, little flower around the neck, with the merienda, plus some singing and dancing, you know, very friendly, very easy to get to know. So I was just surprised.

Q: You were surprised.

A: Yeah, you just never know what to expect.

Q: Okay. (overlaps) You didn’t expect that from a rebel group?

A: Exactly.

Q: Were you fearful for your safety?

A: No.

Q: At any time–

A: Because they had–

Q: You go to Mindanao a lot.

A: I do. We have a lot of projects (inaudible) again, it seems like the responsible management is to oversee your activities and to look at them and make sure they’re effective, and that the beneficiaries are benefitting.

Q: Aren’t you a moving target?

A: I hope not.

Q: I mean, not you as a person, but you as your office?

A: As my job.

Q: As your job.

A: As my title. I hope not. I mean, I have to think that the work we’re doing is for people and that we are engaging with those people so they’ve got no incentive to hurt me in anyway.

Q: What do you consider the biggest concern of the United States in the Philippines today?

A: I think it’s probably twin concerns. I’ll give you two concerns. You know, one is the whole sort of prosperity issue. You know, there are people in poverty here who shouldn’t be, ’cause it’s a country of incredible talent and resources and so, that’s concern A. It’s really harnessing that talent which is good for America. You know, more Filipinos can buy more American products and you can see in the United States, more American businesses here will do well. And frankly, we would need less aid here if there were people who were not poor. And going with that is the sort of security, good governance angle, you know, if people don’t have security, you don’t get investments, businesses don’t grow. If you don’t have good rule of law, the same thing happens. So they’re really married together.

Q: This Balikatan issue and you know the US Forces here, is that a thorn on the side of the relationship between the Philippines and the US?

A: You know, I don’t think so. I mean, I think, you always have issues that you know, require constant management and watching. And I think, you know, Filipinos are understandably sensitive. This is a sovereign nation, you know, they wanna be very sure that when you have at the invitation foreign trips here, that they’re here under the right hospices, that everyone knows what they’re doing and where they are, and so I think it’s one of those we have to keep making sure that everything we’re doing is exactly in conjunction with what the Filipinos need, what the Armed forces looks for, that we are complying with the laws. I mean, it’s one of those issues I regarded as real management issue for all of us, but an important one. And I would completely understand it, I would feel exactly the same in the United States. You know, you have every reason to want to make sure that this is managed in a way that’s consistent with Philippine interests and their sovereignty.

Q: Okay. Now, the other, other thing is, one of the bigger issues here or bigger concerns when you think of the US Embassy, you think of the US Visa.

A: Absolutely.

Q: Okay.

A: Yes.

Q: Tell us something about because I’m sure the viewers are concerned why, why is it so difficult to get a US Visa?

A: You know, I get asked amazing questions about it. I hear it’s easier for this month, I hear last month. You know, I don’t have good answers for you because I told you it’s done by experts. This is the biggest and busiest consular section in the world.

Q: Is that right?

A: We have about 3,000 people everyday, come in looking for a visa, a passport, a service. A lot of people coming in–

Q: The biggest ha, in the world?

A: Yeah.

Q: Wow.

A: Because–

Q: Is it the biggest headache as well?

A: No, it’s not really I don’t think, a headache–we have a really talented staff and they work hard to make sure, you know, that each customer, and there are customers, is treated individually, fairly, one of the things we are trying to do is make sure information gets out to people because they said there are myths, mystiques–(CLL: Right) and it’s always hard because everyone’s situation is different. So, you might be travelling to the United States on a work visa. You might be going to do journalism work for a few months whereas someone else may be travelling to just visit friends and someone else might be immigrating or studying. You know there are so many different legal categories, that’s one of the things we’ve been trying to do is to get more information out so that you know what kind of visa to apply for and all the other categories do or where to go if you’re looking for passport or–

Q: Because I know people for example who want to get their visa and they’re hard pressed to present papers that show money even if in truth they really don’t have money. You know, you’re pressed to invent these things just to get it.

A: You know the best piece of advice I can give is, I’m not one of our experts, and each case is different which is why I’m always hesitant ’cause I tell you one thing and you’re friend says, (CLL: that’s not the case) ’cause their going on a student visa, that doesn’t apply. But you know, our webpage has a lot of information about what kind of visa, what you need to have for that. We’ve tried to do things so that you could get an appointment, you’re not waiting in line too long, make it a little more user-friendly. We’re building new consular’s section but it won’t be done for a couple years so bear with us.

Q: Wow.

A: So that it’ll be nicer, wider (CLL overlaps: For the biggest, my gosh why are we the biggest?) Well, I think it’s the people relations–(CLL overlapping: That’s  not a very good distinction, isn’t it). No but it’s the people, the people relationship, you know, a lot of Filipinos are either dual nationals so they need passport services or immigrant visas or visitors, students. But for me, I think that’s the relationship. We are related.

Q: Yeah, okay.

(BC asks question)

A: (inaudible) deal with?

Q: Now currently?

A: It’s probably always the same for me and it’s the unexpected and the unplanned for. I think the things like natural disasters, which of course, you know, affect everyone, but they affect the embassy too. You know, and you can’t, it’s my old crisis management background, it’s hard to be prepared how to respond, we have typhoon Reming, the super typhoon that hit Manila, and now our Embassy was flooded, we had trees down, we had employees without light and power and how do you look after them to keep the Embassy running, or how do we help others?

Q: I see, your response, your response (overlaps).

A: Yeah, how do we, what is the right role for America, how do we help out, butting in, we want to be helpful but not take charge.

Q: Is politics one of the pressing issues that you had to deal with for example, now, you know the political season is open. Do you have to deal with this or do you–?

A: Well, we have to deal with it in the right way, which is we can’t take sides. The United States is not gonna pick a candidate, it’s up for Filipinos to–and it’s not as easy as it sounds because we know all the candidates, all of us do and many of the others who declared, you know, were out and about the country. It’s very natural. I end up in events where I’m sitting with one of them or talking to one of their supporters. It’s a little like bask–the UAAP basketball. People always ask me, “You sat with so and so” (CLL overlaps: Who are you for?) Yes. So, it’ll be, we’re gonna need to be very careful, we’ve been talking about that as an Embassy. And of course, our Philippine staff absolutely  can and should vote for whoever they wanna vote for.

Q: Are you at any time awed by the what do you call this, the grandeur of your position. Like for example, you know, you’re not there as Kristie Kenney. You’re there as the Ambassador. Are you at any time awed by that?

A: Yes and it’s sometimes hard for me to forget ’cause we’re used to being ourselves where and that’s probably the hardest part for me. It’s where my predecessors were perhaps much better. I’m just used to being me and sometimes you have to pull back–

Q Well, Kristie for me that’s the charming part, you know, you’re you.

A: Thank you (coughs).

Q: Was your background in crisis management a very important factor in appointing you to this post?

A: I don’t think so. What secretary told me at that time, Secretary Rice, is that she wanted a better feel for the Philippines. And she wanted to send someone who would be a people person, who would be comfortable building relationships.

Q: So she recognized that in you.

A: Which is nice, isn’t it? Because I didn’t really, I’ve sat in several meetings with her but I didn’t know.

Q: I’m curious about your National War College. Why’d you go there?

A: We send diplomats, we send at about 15 diplomats every year.

Q; Oh.

A: And it was a great experience for me because it’s all military, same rank as you are, or you know, at that time, but we send about 15 civilian diplomats and it’s the first time I really learned about our military. So very, very you know, just a whole new world and also a very free academic environment. So we debated everything and anything and it was a lot of fun.

Q: It was a diplomatic move.

A: You know, it’s a year of sort of off, that’s a very thoughtful fun, and we also played tons of sports ’cause like being back in school again, you have teams  (CLL laughs) It’s great.

Q: You had to be young. Okay, the Subic Rape Case was a you know, it garnered a lot of press attention. Did you feel under duress during that time?

A: Yes, because it was, this is one of those cases that’s emotional for every single person on every side. It’s not an uh,–you know, these are unpleasant things. These are not, it wasn’t pleasant, I imagined for either of the two young people involved, for their families, you know, the good news was the stress was simply, the emotional difficulty of it. And being able to realize that nobody was gonna win, there’s no winning when you have those criminal cases. The good news for me is policy-wise, it wasn’t very complicated. You know, we have a Visiting Forces Agreement plays out what we’re gonna do. (interview cut) So, we had a road map of how to follow this, laid out very clearly. But it doesn’t take away the emotional difficulty.

Q: Well, some people felt there was undue haste in sending back Daniel Smith.

A: The Supreme Court was pretty clear, I thought, the Court of Appeals, the case is over, he’s declared innocent and at that point, at least, under both American and Philippine law you don’t hold innocent people.

Q: He was declared innocent? Was he?

A: Yes, the charge was dismissed (CLL Overlaps: Wasn’t he found guilty?) No, because the Court of Appeals overturned that. And so at that point, when the Court of Appeals issues a decision, that’s it. And I was not thinking I should be in the mode of ignoring a decision-making of the Court of Appeals.

Q: Did you ever feel that your life was in danger while being here?

A: No.

Q: Never?

A: Never.

Q: Never.

A: Never.

Q: Okay. You have any favorite place aside from Jolo in the Philippines?

A: Favorite place is to relax or visit a very different–you know, I love the Rice Terraces are beautiful.

Q: Banaue?

A: Banaue. Baguio. Astonishing.

Q: Yes, yes.

A: And now, you know, now as a new diver, I’m a beach girl, so I really enjoy diving–

Q: Which one, Boracay?

A: Went to Boracay diving (clears throat) Actually my favorite diving (inaudible) has been Palawan.

Q: Palawan.

A: Yeah.

Q: Coron?

A: Coron?

Q: Did you do wreck diving?

A: No, i’m a little afraid yet of wreck diving. I’m doing sort of coral reefs for the moment.

Q: Okay that’s good enough.

A: To build up to–

Q: Last question, you didn’t use the surname Bill, you’ve retained your name, why?

A: Well, I sometimes use his surname, but–

Q: When?

A: When I’m talking to my in-laws (CLL laughs, overlaps: yeah, you should) But the in-laws, I’m Mrs. Brownfield. But here I think because by the time we got married, we were both settled in our careers, so I sort of meant to take his name and then, I don’t know, we were signed together and it was easier to be using different last names. And Bill always refers to me as KK, so, you know.

Q: So he’s no macho–

A: He doesn’t care.

Q: What a sweetheart, huh?

A: Yeah.

Q: I’d like to meet him.

A: You would, you’d love him.

END OF INTERVIEW